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| [2010/08/07 03:54:39] <z00dax6> what hotel are people staying at for puppetcamp/SF | ||
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| [2010/08/07 04:46:31] <larne> if i set a default inside a class, like File { owner => ... }, does that apply only to the current class, or to all classes? | ||
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| [2010/08/07 04:57:06] <joschi> larne: only the current scope (e.g. the same class, define, etc.) | ||
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| [2010/08/07 04:57:50] <larne> thanks | ||
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| [2010/08/07 05:18:03] <Volcane> joschi, larne: and any xlasses included in that class | ||
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| [2010/08/07 07:05:16] <simplechat> hey guys, is there any reason why puppet would just hang? | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:05:20] <simplechat> and sit there for awhile? | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:05:29] <darkfade1> the puppet master went for lunch | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:05:37] <alcy> lol | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:05:44] <simplechat> hmmm | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:05:45] <alcy> simplechat, what's the problem | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:05:54] <simplechat> alcy, i'm running puppet on one of my servers | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:05:55] <simplechat> in debug mode | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:06:11] <simplechat> and its gone through, and about halfway through it just stopped | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:06:36] <alcy> there can be a bunch of things. do a ps aux and see if any of the apps have gone defunct | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:06:56] <simplechat> root 9446 1.2 4.6 114180 43912 ? Dl 00:03 0:02 ruby /usr/sbin/puppetd --test -d | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:06:59] <simplechat> is still running | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:07:13] <simplechat> wow | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:07:18] <simplechat> heartbeat is sitting at 100% | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:07:20] <simplechat> this can't be good | ||
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| [2010/08/07 07:19:55] <simplechat> but yeah | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:20:01] <simplechat> at the moment its just sitting after fileserver.describe | ||
| [2010/08/07 07:20:05] <simplechat> its been sitting there for awhile | ||
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| [2010/08/07 08:55:01] <simplechat> Hey guys | ||
| [2010/08/07 08:55:12] <simplechat> puppet is balooning to 7 gigs worth of ram usage | ||
| [2010/08/07 08:55:17] <simplechat> is there any reason why that would happen? | ||
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| [2010/08/07 09:05:14] <Volcane> are you copying large files? | ||
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| [2010/08/07 09:36:45] <madduck> Volcane: you said the other day that defines are all global. So why would I get "Could not find resource type apt::pin::suite" when using it as a virtual resource without including the apt class? | ||
| [2010/08/07 09:36:52] <madduck> (this is after the apt class has been loaded) | ||
| [2010/08/07 09:38:09] <madduck> ARGH. because it's calls apt::preferences::pin::suite | ||
| [2010/08/07 09:38:11] * madduck idiot | ||
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| [2010/08/07 10:42:04] <madduck> given that *nothing* depends or requires or anything File["/etc/apt/preferences"], uncommenting the requirement in http://slexy.org/view/s21cH5MoFV should not introduce a dependency cycle, right? | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:43:29] * Volcane should just stop clicking on madduck's pastes, they never have useful info to actually answer questions | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:43:54] <madduck> i was afraid if you looked at my entire code, you would faint | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:44:27] <Volcane> that on its own in test.pp obviously doesnt cause a cycle, so whats the point of the question? | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:45:26] <madduck> here is the full context: http://slexy.org/view/s2hLBSRWcI | ||
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| [2010/08/07 10:47:28] <madduck> the --graph option doesn't do anything | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:47:55] <Volcane> exec{"/foo": } auto requires file{"/foo":} if its in the manifest | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:48:13] <madduck> oh, okay. an obscure feature. ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:48:14] <Volcane> afaik, you can check with verbose debug but i think thats it | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:48:22] <madduck> i didn't see anything | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:48:23] <madduck> thanks! | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:48:47] <Volcane> well its a bit obvious, like saying owner => john when you also have user{"john":} | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:48:56] <Volcane> anyway, try it, its a guess | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:51:15] <madduck> renaming the exec does not fix it. :( | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:51:29] <Volcane> remove line 56 | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:57:47] @ toi joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:59:11] <madduck> Volcane: yeah, once I remove that line, everything works | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:59:24] <Volcane> yup, must be an auto require then | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:59:29] <madduck> and nothing depends on File["/etc/apt/preferences"], hence I fail to see th cycle | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:59:37] <Volcane> the exec does | ||
| [2010/08/07 10:59:53] <madduck> even after i changed the name and without a "creates"? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:00:49] <Volcane> not sure, --graph it while its working see where it is | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:01:02] <madduck> --graph produces no output | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:01:40] <Volcane> it leaves a dot file in /var/lib/puppet somewhere | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:03:16] @ bug joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:03:17] <Volcane> in your pastie clearly there's a dependency, might be others when you rename the exec, need to see the cycle | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:04:57] @ Quit: ]oestewart: Ping timeout: 265 seconds | ||
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| [2010/08/07 11:09:36] <madduck> Volcane: I cannot see a cycle: http://scratch.madduck.net/__tmp__rel.png | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:10:12] <Volcane> thats when its working though isnt it? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:10:47] <Volcane> or is that while its spewing errors about a cycle? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:11:03] <madduck> i am making sure, sec | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:13:19] <madduck> so the Exec depends on the file! does it \scan the command for tokens??? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:13:59] <Volcane> not sure | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:14:08] <madduck> http://scratch.madduck.net/__tmp__rel-broken.png | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:14:12] <madduck> or it's the other way around | ||
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| [2010/08/07 11:15:02] <Volcane> show your code that produces that graph | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:15:44] <madduck> http://scratch.madduck.net/__tmp__preferences.pp | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:17:06] <madduck> there is no relationship between Exec["save-local-preferences"] and File["/etc/apt/preferences"] | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:18:53] <Volcane> hmm, sure there's some option to make it log what its auto requiring | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:19:00] <Volcane> but something is odd | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:19:00] <madduck> --debug shows | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:19:03] <Volcane> what version you on? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:19:10] <madduck> 0.25.4 | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:20:12] <madduck> debug: //apt::preferences/Exec[save-local-preferences]: Autorequiring File[/etc/apt/preferences] | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:20:30] <madduck> so it actually scans the onlyif or command for tokens! | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:20:38] <Volcane> wonder based on what, either that or there's a bug :) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:20:40] <madduck> that's RIDICULOUS | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:20:50] <madduck> jamesturnbull: any idea? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:22:12] <madduck> it's the onlyif | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:22:29] <madduck> that's even worse than the command | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:22:40] <madduck> the whole point of | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:22:41] <madduck> onlyif => "test -e /etc/apt/preferences", | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:22:50] <madduck> is to limit the resource, not to require the fucking file | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:22:55] <Volcane> nods | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:23:09] <madduck> thanks Volcane, again, for your patience with me! | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:23:19] <madduck> i am going to improve@ | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:23:20] <madduck> ! | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:23:34] <Volcane> heh | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:23:46] <Volcane> i am not seeing where its doing this | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:23:58] <Volcane> but meh, puppet code is a too much of a maze for a saterday pm | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:24:44] * madduck prepares test case | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:25:52] <Volcane> oh this is even documented :) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:26:17] <madduck> you are kidding me, right? ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:26:30] <Volcane> http://nephilim.ml.org/~rip/puppet/historical/0.25.0/metaparameter.html | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:26:38] <Volcane> look above 'scedule' | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:27:20] <madduck> but that does not square with my test | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:27:45] <Volcane> sure it does, it found the full path to that file in onlyif and so required it | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:27:54] <madduck> onlyif is a command? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:28:06] <madduck> "plus any fully qualified paths that appear in the command" | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:28:10] <Volcane> yeah i presume the docs just neglect to mention it checks all of those too | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:28:38] <madduck> no, for if i leave the path in command and modify it only in onlyif, then the cycle goes away | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:28:39] <Volcane> so file a bug requesting they clarify that, but onlyif is a command its executed etc and so stands to reason it gets the same treatment | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:30:01] <Volcane> hmm, not sure, i cant seem to reproduce your onlyif behavior with a simple 2 resource test.pp | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:30:05] <madduck> it does *not* check command; it only checks onlyif | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:30:11] <Volcane> heh | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:30:40] @ Quit: toi: Ping timeout: 240 seconds | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:32:50] <Volcane> #2546 is what i remember, but its not done | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:32:50] <gepetto> Volcane: #2546 is http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/show/2546 "Puppet - Feature #2546: Autorequire an exec resource with creates attribute - Puppet Labs" | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:33:16] <Volcane> so i dont know wtf, http://gist.github.com/513053 should produce the bug shouldnt it? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:35:34] <madduck> yeah, i am failing too | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:36:00] <madduck> but I can certainly reproduce with my apt class | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:36:15] <madduck> command => "mv /etc/apt/XXXXXXXpreferences /etc/apt/preferences.LOCAL", | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:36:19] <madduck> the bug persists | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:36:32] <madduck> onlyif => "test -e /etc/apt/XXXXXXXpreferences", *instead* | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:36:38] <madduck> and the error goes away | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:36:52] <Volcane> heh | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:36:57] <Volcane> too much magic | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:37:49] * madduck dislikes all form of magic | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:37:56] * madduck hence uses debian | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:38:24] <Volcane> wtf? more magic in debian than in hogswards | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:38:35] <madduck> like? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:38:46] <Volcane> like everything they do to create the 'just works' illusion | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:38:57] <Volcane> all the funky packaging, patching and deviasion from upstream | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:39:28] <Volcane> all the weird shit like funky mysql users with permissions, passwords stored in strange places, cron jobs runing without warning | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:39:32] <Volcane> thats all magic | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:39:43] <Volcane> debian exim, thats not just magic but fucking evil black magic | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:39:55] <madduck> exim is fucking evil. period. ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:40:37] <Volcane> there's a lot more specific undocumented unexpected stuff happening in debian than in other distros who favor leaving things the way upstream designed it | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:41:01] @ jmccune joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:41:28] <madduck> i'd love to hear more examples | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:41:34] <Volcane> apache | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:41:35] <Volcane> lighttpd | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:41:37] <madduck> then i can put them into the next edition of my book. ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:42:01] <madduck> Debian added to apache a useful configuation mechanism which upstream has since adopted… | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:42:17] <sdodson> i ran into that while fixing a debian mysql server, made me want to kick puppies | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:42:25] <Volcane> and so why is the apache way and the lighttpd way completely different? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:42:38] <Volcane> since you improved both | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:42:41] <madduck> Volcane: because upstream are different? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:42:43] <Volcane> why not improve them the same way? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:43:04] <madduck> Volcane: lighttpd is fairly new and we don't yet have a policy for httpd in general. | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:43:08] <madduck> i agree with you though | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:43:10] <Volcane> nope, whoever did the lighttpd *-enable dirs just figured he knew better than the apache dude and didnt bother iwth consistancy | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:43:14] <Volcane> the concept applies equally | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:43:15] <madduck> it would be good to have, but standardisation takes ages | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:43:40] <Volcane> and so instead of getting a system where you can enable a module for whichever httpd is installed | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:43:51] <Volcane> you get the pile of crap that a2en* and the lighttpd equivs | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:44:28] <Volcane> or how about the completely unpredictable, unstandard ENABLE="yes" etc style stuff you have to set to actually start daemons even if they're in the rc | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:44:34] @ happymcplaksin joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:44:49] <Volcane> how is each daemon doing it differently an improvement and not magic? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:45:15] <madduck> it's not magic since it's either documented, or the init script will print something accordingly; but it's not consistent. | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:45:18] <Volcane> how are we supposed to make service{"apache2": ensure => running} actually work on debian without coding in knowledge of every service? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:45:34] <madduck> i agree | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:45:43] <madduck> theoretically, that's policy-rc.d | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:45:50] <Volcane> why when the requirement came up - due to the retarded policy of enabling everythig by default | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:45:52] <madduck> just noone has worked on it. | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:46:00] <Volcane> did they not improve the rc system to have a concept of installed but not enbled like redhat has? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:46:15] <madduck> yes | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:46:18] <madduck> well, yes/no | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:46:22] <Volcane> or even better, why did they not move away from the MS Windows mode of enabling all services by default? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:46:27] <madduck> as I said, policy-rc.d | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:46:36] <Volcane> what the world need is not more half/un configured services running by default | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:46:52] <madduck> that is the whole point of /etc/default/servicename:ENABLED | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:46:53] <Volcane> so yes, debian is full of inconsistant magic | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:47:28] <Volcane> madduck: except they didnt bake that ability into the RC system - its a ability baked into every rc script | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:47:34] <Volcane> thats quite a significantly different thing | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:47:39] @ happymcplaksin left channel #puppet () | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:47:45] <madduck> how does redhate do it? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:47:48] @ Quit: ckauhaus: Read error: Operation timed out | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:47:50] <madduck> oops ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:47:54] <madduck> freudian slip. ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:47:56] <Volcane> service foo has symlinks for K and S | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:48:03] <madduck> (like debian) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:48:05] <Volcane> so its installed - visible iwth the rc managers | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:48:14] <madduck> (like debian) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:48:17] <Volcane> but in rc3 - like your rc2 - its by default disabled - set to K | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:48:33] <Volcane> and when you disable the service all it does is tweak the symlinks | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:48:40] <madduck> (same) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:48:41] <Volcane> debian - at least in the debians i run - dont have that concept | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:49:05] <Volcane> so if its the same why the apache2 ENABLE variable in default that prevents an enabled service from starting? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:49:08] <madduck> yeah, it's hard. there've been libraries of discussion about it | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:49:11] <Volcane> if the rc system supports installed but not enabled? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:49:23] <Volcane> so its _not_ the same | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:49:34] <Volcane> its basement optimised | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:49:39] <Volcane> works for people who manage 10 machines | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:49:52] <Volcane> we cannot in current debian make service{} work | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:50:09] <madduck> the point I think is that we wanted services to be secure by default and then enabled after installl; where this is not possible, we introduced the ENABLED check | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:50:26] <Volcane> so i am saying i agree with the need | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:50:32] <madduck> yeah | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:50:35] <Volcane> improve the rc system, not *every rc script* | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:50:41] <madduck> and i am not opposed to taking this to debian-policy | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:50:55] <madduck> but maybe first we can come up with an ideal solution? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:50:57] <Volcane> cos if anything debian maintainers never agree on anything | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:51:08] <Volcane> expecting a consistant result to come from *fix every script please* is just insane | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:51:14] <madduck> and given that I assume people have thought about it before, investigate why that soluition might not be ideal? | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:51:39] <madduck> Volcane: it's hard to get consensus, but it's possible, and the policy is binding. | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:51:43] <Volcane> no, i dont think they thought of this in the relation of automation and consistancy | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:52:01] <Volcane> and maybe they did think about it, but the core structure of debian as a group makes it impossible to come to a conclusion | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:52:01] <madduck> quite possibly not. | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:52:21] <madduck> no, it just makes it slower and it requires more drivers | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:52:26] <madduck> people who keep at it | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:52:29] <Volcane> if a distro isnt consistent and predictable at all levels, its magic | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:52:48] <madduck> there are advantages to the way we make decisions in debian, although most people always make fun of our anarchy | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:52:59] <madduck> Volcane: I define magic differently | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:53:09] <Volcane> madduck: i see the advantage, i dont see the suitability to enterprises though | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:53:20] <madduck> I would say that if it isn't consistent and predictable at all levels, as you say, then it's inconsistent and/or broken. | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:53:32] <madduck> magic is when it tries to do something "intelligent" | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:53:49] <Volcane> debian is *all about* doing something intelligent that works for most of the users | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:54:19] <madduck> it does not require you to install packages based on what you write into your config files | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:54:21] <Volcane> exept due to inconsistancy, bickering and lack of standards its horrible for the users who arent "into" the fun of creating a distro | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:54:26] <madduck> which is what puppet is doing. ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:55:02] <Volcane> a debian user who might be using it as a learning platform by definition is fucked | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:55:09] <Volcane> no books or upstream documentation applies | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:55:11] <madduck> i am sorry you have had bad debian experiences. my problem is that I am too close to the matter, so I don't see these problems | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:55:22] <madduck> also, my clients all run debian, so there is consistency | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:55:27] <Volcane> a company who relies on debian is equally fucked | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:55:36] <madduck> that's not true | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:55:42] <Volcane> no longer can they employ unix/linux sysadmins, they need *debian* admins | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:55:43] <madduck> and there happens to be a good book. ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:55:53] <Volcane> "a good book" *laughs* | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:55:57] <Volcane> its like being in 1985 | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:55:59] * madduck pouts | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:56:39] <madduck> the whole point about debian — and I think it still holds — is that if you know unix, you can quickly figure out why something doesn't work as it should in debian. | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:56:44] <madduck> there are thin layers | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:56:55] <madduck> from my suse and redhat experiences, i cannot say the same. | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:57:02] <Volcane> i rant about debian and often make sweeping wild statements mostly to get a raise out of people, but i do have 100s of debian boxes so i do know how they work etc and have thought these thigns through :) | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:57:05] <madduck> sure, it would be better if it adhered to standards right away | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:57:13] @ gniks joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:57:13] <madduck> but i think it's more important to be transparent. | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:57:36] <Volcane> consistency in busines is extremely important. I have a redhat 6 machine - circa 1999 - and a redhat 5 book | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:58:01] <madduck> and my book is about debian sarge and I'd say 95% of it still applies. | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:58:05] <madduck> to lenny | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:58:07] <Volcane> a redhat sysadmin will log int those and see strange things but mostly they'll notice what we have today is a firm progression of those | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:58:17] <Volcane> consistent incremental improvement along a design and approach that holds firm | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:58:41] @ Quit: bodepd: Quit: bodepd | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:58:44] <Volcane> the places where redhat does things odd - like hostname/fqdn resolution and user groups - its odd but damn consistant | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:58:49] <madduck> i say we stop this discussion, but if you ever have something real that just pisses you off about debian, drop me a note: madduck@d.o | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:59:00] <Volcane> they did it stupidly day 1 and they didnt move off saying a fuck the users we'll just change everything | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:59:42] @ Quit: bug: Quit: bug | ||
| [2010/08/07 11:59:52] <madduck> keep in mind that debian isn't geared for the enterprise. it's a community distro. it's every enterprise's own fault if they use it. and yet, so many do. ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:00:01] <Volcane> yah i know | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:02:17] <darkfade1> i think a good admin needs to find their way in any unix, but then there's personality coming into play too. most SysVs or even freebsd make me feel sane, debian i'll handle the way it wants but i'll always feel a bit "wrong" | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:02:48] <darkfade1> if you ever read "falling out of cars", it's just the same | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:03:23] <Volcane> heh | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:03:48] <darkfade1> it will start services after i install the software | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:03:51] <darkfade1> it's a good ide | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:03:52] <darkfade1> +a | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:03:57] <darkfade1> but it makes me cringe | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:04:17] <madduck> if you or anyone you knew ever wanted to put together a well-founded critique of certain debian aspects, I'd be willing to assist. | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:04:36] <Volcane> what annoys me is: default installed config wont start the daemon, then you try to uninstall it, which has to stop the daemon. this fails due to eh fucked up config it installed a minute ago and so uninstall fails | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:04:57] <Volcane> now you have to configure this thing you dont even want on the box till it works - possibly installing depndencies - just to uninstall it | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:05:01] <Volcane> boggle. | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:05:10] <madduck> Volcane: that would be a release-critical bug | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:05:14] <darkfade1> madduck: i dont know - the thing is most debian users are happy with the debian way, i don't wanna tell them how to behave | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:05:16] <madduck> please make sure to file those! | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:05:18] <Volcane> admittedly i think that was a very broken nginx package when it was still new | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:05:28] <Volcane> not seen that in debian 5 | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:05:38] <madduck> darkfade1: debian can always get better, and more consistency is surely good for everyone | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:05:42] <darkfade1> ok. | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:05:51] <darkfade1> then i'll try to collect for a few months | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:06:04] @ Demosthenes joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:06:07] <madduck> the important point to remember is that not everyone will agree, but we are a do-ocracy, so you can still drive change | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:06:12] <darkfade1> the problem is: it works, it just feels odd. will take time to write that done. | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:06:12] <madduck> darkfade1: cool. | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:06:14] <darkfade1> *down | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:06:33] <madduck> darkfade1: http://debiansystem.info might shed some light too. ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:06:42] <madduck> </shameless self-promotion> | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:06:46] <darkfade1> hehe | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:07:09] @ Quit: jmccune: Ping timeout: 240 seconds | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:07:26] <madduck> i really hope I will make a new edition for squeeze, but as I said before: 95% still applies | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:07:34] <madduck> the new book will be mostly new stuff | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:07:55] <Volcane> 4 to 5 doesnt seem to traumatic for us, not even looked at any 6 stuff | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:08:09] <Volcane> we still have lots of 4 though till we can make dev time to thoroughly test on 5 | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:08:26] <darkfade1> i tried a few upgrades to squeeze, almost no issue at all | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:08:46] <madduck> i completely missed 4 to 5, meaning that on the <200 boxes I control, the upgrade was smooth. ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:08:47] <darkfade1> and the issues that occured all just related to the minimal images from stacklet | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:09:24] <madduck> i expect 5 to 6 to be quite simple too, except right now mdadm might kill you. :( | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:09:28] * madduck is mdadm maintainer | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:09:37] <darkfade1> really? | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:09:39] <darkfade1> wow | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:09:45] <darkfade1> i can file something for you then | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:09:50] <darkfade1> where should i submit? | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:09:54] <madduck> % reportbug mdadm | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:10:01] <darkfade1> wow, ok | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:10:01] <madduck> (please) | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:10:31] <madduck> how exciting. MORE BUGS! | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:11:02] <darkfade1> nothing to worry about i promise | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:11:36] <madduck> a bug filed and not fixed is better than no bug filed. ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:12:53] <Beens> hi guys | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:12:59] <Beens> is this fixed already? => http://projects.reductivelabs.com/issues/86 ? | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:13:29] <Beens> or do I need to make a File statement in my manifests for each parent directory? | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:14:30] <Volcane> Beens: not fixed, there's a shorter work around proposed in the comments | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:14:34] <madduck> Beens: afaik you still need it for parents. | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:17:05] <Beens> ok | ||
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| [2010/08/07 12:18:34] <madduck> i usually require an Exec of the parent directory, which does mkdir --parent | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:19:26] <Volcane> who needs consistant results :P | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:21:40] <madduck> red hat users apparently. :P | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:22:49] <Volcane> heh | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:23:29] @ kuttan_ left channel #puppet () | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:24:42] <madduck> Volcane: i found a solution to my problem: since cwd is set anyway, I can just get rid of the absolute filenames | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:25:22] <madduck> HA | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:25:25] <Volcane> hehe | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:25:32] <madduck> i am smarter than the puppetmaster with all its magic | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:25:37] <madduck> EAT THAT, LAK! | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:26:08] @ Quit: alexs_: Quit: leaving | ||
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| [2010/08/07 12:33:45] <darkfade1> grrr grrr kill | ||
| [2010/08/07 12:34:04] <darkfade1> it didn't include the body now | ||
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| [2010/08/07 13:02:28] @ Quit: Determinist: Remote host closed the connection | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:02:36] <madduck> you did not. ;) | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:02:46] <madduck> anyway, the bug is not new | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:03:17] <madduck> darkfade1: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=508123 | ||
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| [2010/08/07 13:05:53] <madduck> darkfade1: which PID did you iorenice? | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:06:07] @ Quit: yannL: Ping timeout: 248 seconds | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:07:35] @ Quit: mclarke: Quit: mclarke | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:09:21] <madduck> darkfade1: i replied to the bug report; let's keep it there. | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:09:24] * madduck goes to sleep | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:12:32] <darkfade1> well renice will fix it w/o slowing down anything | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:12:47] <darkfade1> it's the resync process/thread that i reniced | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:14:10] <darkfade1> i'll reproduce and mail | ||
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| [2010/08/07 13:42:39] <shoot^> Howdy folks. I'm trying to test Puppet out on two Ubuntu Server VMs, running the .deb versions from the repos. However, every time I try to connect to the master using puppetd, I receive the error "Could not request certificate: undefined method `closed?` for nil:NilClass" | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:42:53] <shoot^> I've Googled around, but so far a solution seems elusive. | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:42:57] <shoot^> Does anyone have any suggestions? | ||
| [2010/08/07 13:56:34] @ alcy left channel #puppet ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is") | ||
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| [2010/08/07 14:15:08] <Volcane> shoot^: afaik thats an ubuntu ruby version bug | ||
| [2010/08/07 14:15:15] <Volcane> might be wrong though | ||
| [2010/08/07 14:16:29] <shoot^> Volcane, any ideas where I might find out more? | ||
| [2010/08/07 14:18:45] @ Quit: bug: Quit: bug | ||
| [2010/08/07 14:20:45] <Volcane> i thnk if you just get debs for the latest 0.25.x puppet it'll go away, they worked around the ruby bug | ||
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| [2010/08/07 14:33:02] <shoot^> Volcane, I'm currently running 0.25.4 - is 0.25.5 the latest release? | ||
| [2010/08/07 14:34:14] <Volcane> yup | ||
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| [2010/08/07 14:49:12] <shoot^> Volcane, I've upgraded to 0.25.5 | ||
| [2010/08/07 14:49:21] @ Quit: ]oestewart: Ping timeout: 252 seconds | ||
| [2010/08/07 14:50:01] <shoot^> However, "err: Could not request certificate: SSL_connect SYSCALL returned=5 errno=0 state=SSLv2/v3 read server hello A" | ||
| [2010/08/07 14:50:37] @ Quit: ezmobius: Remote host closed the connection | ||
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| [2010/08/07 14:57:56] <jameswhite> is there an opposite to "unless", so that I can exec somthing if a command returns 0 instead of unless it returns 0 ? | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:00:15] <Volcane> onlyif? | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:00:52] <jameswhite> does that work? | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:01:55] <Volcane> all the options for types are here http://docs.puppetlabs.com/references/stable/type.html | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:02:10] <jameswhite> Volcane: thank you sir. | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:03:08] <shoot^> Volcane - any more ideas on my latest woes? | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:08:34] <Volcane> shoot^: nah | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:09:18] <shoot^> seems quite unusual- only one other report I can find via. Google - the only suggested fix was moving off Webrick to Mongrel | ||
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| [2010/08/07 15:30:24] <sarts> Hmf... | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:30:44] <sarts> why does puppetd take 236seconds to find out nothing changed?! | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:31:19] <jmccune> sarts: There's a lot of work that goes on to check the current state of resources. | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:31:44] <jmccune> sarts: Are you managing relatively large amounts of file resoruces recursively? | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:32:06] <sarts> a lot of nagios checks | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:32:20] <sarts> external-resources that are exposed from other nodes | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:32:28] <jmccune> Gotcha, might be doing a lot of work then. | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:32:33] <sarts> other then that, we are talking about 10-20 fles. | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:34:45] <sarts> ok | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:35:26] <sarts> I am going to dig in the source, see if I can find out what 'work' needs to be done. | ||
| [2010/08/07 15:36:50] <shoot^> I'm getting really frustrated with these "err: Could not request certificate: SSL_connect SYSCALL returned=5 errno=0 state=SSLv2/v3 read server hello A" errors... anyone have any ideas? | ||
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