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| [2012/01/01 02:20:13] <CrazyGir> welcome to 2012! | ||
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| [2012/01/01 02:25:31] <CrazyGir> is there something inherently wrong with my directory definition here? http://dpaste.com/679876/ | ||
| [2012/01/01 02:25:53] <CrazyGir> I'm getting the oh-so-wonderful: Could not retrieve information from source(s) puppet:///user-configs/.vim at /etc/puppet/modules/people/manifests/init.pp:63 | ||
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| [2012/01/01 03:25:38] <rodjek> CrazyGir: user-configs is a custom fileserver.conf mapping you've created? | ||
| [2012/01/01 03:26:53] <rodjek> you probably also want recurse => true to manage all the files in the dir | ||
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| [2012/01/01 05:04:01] <CrazyGir> rodjek: yes, it is a custom fileserver mapping | ||
| [2012/01/01 05:04:11] <CrazyGir> where should those live, as a separate question | ||
| [2012/01/01 05:04:23] <CrazyGir> and recurse=> true would be nice :) | ||
| [2012/01/01 05:07:00] <CrazyGir> rodjek: odd, adding the recurse=>true does not seem to be enough, still failing with the same error | ||
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| [2012/01/01 05:07:16] <CrazyGir> maybe puppet does not like the hidden directory bit.. | ||
| [2012/01/01 05:07:20] * CrazyGir fiddles | ||
| [2012/01/01 05:08:39] <CrazyGir> nope, same issue >< | ||
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| [2012/01/01 09:26:08] <stephenh> hi, is it possible to expand wildcards for packages? | ||
| [2012/01/01 09:26:27] <stephenh> at the moment when using noop it shows pkgname* as absent | ||
| [2012/01/01 09:27:23] <Dominic> stephenh: I can't imagine that any package providers try to support that.. if it works then it's probably by accident more than design. | ||
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| [2012/01/01 09:28:03] <Dominic> Puppet won't be able to compare versions of individual packages with wildcards, so all sorts of things could happen. | ||
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| [2012/01/01 09:34:32] <stephenh> sure, fair enough | ||
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| [2012/01/01 14:20:16] <dissipate> anyone read the story as to why Puppet is based on Ruby and not Python? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:21:09] <dissipate> apparently one of the original authors of Puppet tried Python first and "couldn't do anything". but then, he tried Ruby and had produced a huge amount of code in 4 hours! | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:21:18] <hacim> you mean luk | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:21:38] <dissipate> let me see if i can find the link | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:22:33] <dissipate> http://docs.puppetlabs.com/guides/faq.html#why-is-puppet-written-in-ruby | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:22:52] <dissipate> i'm sorry but this story makes no sense at all | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:23:06] <dissipate> couldn't write in python at all?? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:23:08] <dissipate> wtf | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:23:45] <dpittman> dissipate: So, what is your actual question? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:24:23] <dissipate> dpittman, why couldn't Luke write in python at all? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:24:46] @ Quit: jab_doa: Quit: Verlassend | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:24:51] <dpittman> dissipate: I have no idea. I would guess that the first few hours in Ruby are easier for a Perl dev than the first few hours in Python. | ||
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| [2012/01/01 14:25:05] <dpittman> dissipate: Why do you ask? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:26:28] <dpittman> dissipate: (also, Luke is honest there: he had very little actual *development* experience, just sysadmin scripting stuff, when he kicked off the project.) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:26:42] <dissipate> dpittman, i didn't realize that it was wise to select a particular technology based on a few hours with it. is that a new paradigm in rapid prototyping? check out the tool for a few hours and boom, make your decision! | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:27:26] * ohadlevy is enjoying this discussion | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:27:59] <dpittman> dissipate: I don't quite follow your point. Are you trying to argue about the technology choices made in 2005, or is there something deeper there? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:28:30] <dpittman> dissipate: ...or have you mistaken an anecdote about Luke's choices in 2005 for "advice for young people", suggesting that when /you/ start your project, you should make the same choices he did? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:28:36] <Volcane> dissipate: the languages have very different approaches, it will resonate differently with different people | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:28:36] <dissipate> dpittman, well, i didn't know of any big problems with python vs. ruby in 2005. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:29:10] <Volcane> mostly its just personal taste and how you choose to think about things | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:29:13] <dissipate> dpittman, the story just seems bizarre if not fishy | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:29:45] <dpittman> dissipate: I assure you, it is entirely true. If you ask Luke he will happily tell you that this reflects as much on his abilities writing code as anything else, though. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:29:53] <dpittman> dissipate: (I know, because I asked that one time. ;) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:30:05] <dissipate> anyone learning a new language knows it can take more than a few hours. by this reasoning he probably should have dumped perl. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:30:47] <dpittman> dissipate: I got nothing, but seriously: this was 2005, those are the decisions he made, and today we have Ruby, which isn't my personal definition of awesome - but Puppet works.... | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:31:03] <wollviech> there is a difference to "learning it" vs. "not being able to do shit" | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:31:08] <dpittman> dissipate: I don't think there is a deeper lesson here than "shipped code wins, language doesn't matter so much" :) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:31:42] <dissipate> dpittman, it does matter though because it creates a lot of overhead. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:32:00] @ tmclaugh joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:32:02] <dpittman> dissipate: OK. I don't follow your argument. What overhead, and where? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:32:09] <wollviech> sometimes the paradigms a language chooses to implement are just contrary and so annoying to you that you decide to drop it | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:32:33] <dissipate> wollviech, i've starting to look into a programming language called J, and after a few hours i can still barely do anything in it. does that mean i should dump it? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:32:52] <Volcane> for a 3rd gen language, yes. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:33:14] <dpittman> dissipate: Depends on your goals. If you want to get things done, other than learn a new language, probably. Write the code in a language / paradigm you know better. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:33:48] <dpittman> dissipate: If you want to learn other ways to write code, or another language, without necessarily producing concrete results, then stick with J. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:33:50] <wollviech> dissipate: depends on whether you want to learn the language for knowledges sake or if you are actively looking for something to get work done with | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:34:12] <dpittman> dissipate: If you think the time investment is worth it, because J will be more productive than !J in your domain, maybe you shouldn't. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:34:25] <dissipate> dpittman, two languages must be maintained, including libraries etc. as i said before i don't care much about the philosophical differences between python and ruby, i would just prefer that one be used everywhere or another. i don't see any deep and or mysterious differences between their practical uses. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:34:46] <dpittman> dissipate: ...but, ultimately, Luke's story isn't about YOU, it is about what *Luke* did seven years back. :) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:34:59] <wollviech> dpittman++ | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:35:19] <dpittman> dissipate: Ah. Puppet is not even close enough to significant to make the Python or Ruby communities vanish. Nothing we decide even remotely matters in that regard. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:35:54] <dissipate> dpittman, i'm not talking about vanishing. i'm just saying the overheard in maintaining both seems like a waste. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:35:55] <dpittman> dissipate: So, what Luke decided makes no ultimate difference to that problem; both communities are going to just trundle along, with the waste that duplicate effort implies. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:36:22] <dpittman> dissipate: We don't maintain either language, as such - or do you mean "in Puppet" there is overhead to maintaining both? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:36:31] <dissipate> one of them should be a footnote in history and frankly i don't give a damn which | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:36:59] @ Quit: ckauhaus: Quit: Leaving. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:37:03] <ohadlevy> dissipate: thats a poor statement imho | ||
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| [2012/01/01 14:38:11] @ Quit: Elwell: Ping timeout: 252 seconds | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:38:17] <wollviech> by that logic we wouldn't need another imperative sctripting language besides perl, and both ruby and python should be done away with. don't agree with that though. a good programmer should be able to pick up a rudimentary understanding of any programming language in a few hours | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:38:31] <dpittman> dissipate: decades of research suggest that homogenous ecosystems are far less robust than heterogenous ecosystems; this seems likely to be true in languages also. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:38:35] <Volcane> or another OS, another browser or another anything | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:38:42] <wollviech> especially if one already knows the paradigms the lanuage employs | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:38:45] <Volcane> we should have stopped with the horse - cos it got us from A - B just fine | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:38:46] <dissipate> dpittman, there is less effort being put into the libraries of each. the fact that fewer people are developing ruby libraries certainly does affect puppet. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:39:27] @ Elwell joined channel #puppet | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:39:41] <Volcane> dissipate: why do you say 3rd party libs affect puppet? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:39:54] <dpittman> dissipate: ...on the other hand, the 65,000+ production lines of Ruby add a substantial cost to the (I infer) rewrite in Python you are suggesting, no? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:40:14] <dissipate> wollviech, there is enough difference between perl, ruby and python to warrant other languages than perl. i don't think the case can be made nearly as much for ruby vs. python. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:40:37] <dpittman> dissipate: So, question: what *outcome* do you want from this discussion? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:41:19] <dissipate> Volcane, it's not just 3rd party libs but the core libs as well. | ||
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| [2012/01/01 14:42:20] <wollviech> dissipate: i disagree. all three of them are imperative, interpreted scripting languages with OO-features tacked on and various amounts of performance issues. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:42:29] <wollviech> dissipate: so from a certain point of view, they are all the same | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:42:42] <agaffney> do you people have nothing better to do on new year's day? :P | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:42:43] <dissipate> dpittman, just acknowledge the fact that the story sounds fishy and that Ruby should probably stay restricted to Rails development. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:43:14] <wollviech> dissipate: especially if you compare the differences between ruby vs. perl (for example) with the differences between ruby vs. ocaml, or ruby vs. scheme, or ruby vs. C, or ruby vs. x86asm | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:44:14] <dissipate> wollviech, how are all those the same? i don't get it. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:44:16] <dpittman> dissipate: I hate to say it, but this is a fight you literally cannot win. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:44:41] <dpittman> dissipate: The story is *true*, so I am happy to agree that it sounds fishy to you, but they are still Luke's words about the situation in 2005 when he made those choices. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:44:45] <bd> I'd like to add brainf*ck to the discussion. *scnr* | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:44:54] <wollviech> hah! | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:45:08] <Volcane> dissipate: Neither point is something that can be acknowledged | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:45:13] <dpittman> dissipate: Puppet isn't in the business of making public statements about what anyone else should do; we are focused on actually, y'know, doing something. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:45:23] <dpittman> dissipate: ...and whatever statement we make, there is *no* real world effect. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:45:26] <dpittman> dissipate: Sorry. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:45:43] <dissipate> dpittman, do you think there is a reason Google picked 3 official languages for development? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:45:53] <wollviech> i'll see your brainfuck and raise you one Befunge | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:46:41] <dpittman> dissipate: Sure: Google care about getting things done, just like we do, and the more languages you use the more you pay in cross-language overheads, so they picked the smallest set they felt comfortable using in production. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:47:19] <dpittman> dissipate: It is not, eg, that they were trying to pick winners in the world, or defeat other languages. They, like us, literally don't care what language we use, just that we get results. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:47:30] <dpittman> s/we use/they use/ | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:47:31] <dissipate> dpittman, right. and do you see how that logic can be applied to the open source community at large? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:47:39] <bd> wollviech: doh, someone called my bluff ;) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:47:56] <wollviech> bd: wheee :-p | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:48:08] <dpittman> bd: http://www.netcobol.com/cobol-compiler-for-windows/ | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:48:10] <dpittman> HTH, HAND. :) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:49:18] <wollviech> brainbleach, please | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:49:28] <bd> I raise by m4. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:49:34] <dpittman> dissipate: Sure, though I don't agree with your conclusion. I understand your arguments, just disagree. ;) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:50:28] <boklm> dissipate: if ruby language developers think it's worth their time to maintain a language like ruby, then it probably is | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:50:34] <dpittman> dissipate: On a practical note, though, unless you want to submit a pull request replacing the 65,000 lines of Ruby we have in production with Python, you are not going to see practical change from us. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:50:45] <dpittman> dissipate: ...and if you did? The net effect would approximate zero in the wider world. :) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:51:03] <CrazyGir> is there something inherently wrong with my directory definition here? http://dpaste.com/679876/ | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:51:14] <CrazyGir> I'm getting the oh-so-wonderful: Could not retrieve information from source(s) puppet:///user-configs/.vim at /etc/puppet/modules/people/manifests/init.pp:63 | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:51:37] <CrazyGir> I have since added the recurse=>true, but this does not seem to be enough, and puppet still fails with the same error | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:51:49] <dissipate> boklm, no, it actually isn't because they don't recognize that their language is not adding anything significant compared to Python. these philosophical differences are bullshit. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:52:00] <Volcane> CrazyGir: is that a module called user-configs/ | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:52:32] <CrazyGir> nope it's a fileserver mount defined separate from modules | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:52:45] <Volcane> CrazyGir: and u checked the master logs? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:52:58] <wollviech> dpittman: actually, there used to be a project on github called 'unholy'. it was a ruby-to-python translator that worked by compiling the ruby-source to ruby-bytecode, translate that to python bytecode and then use the python-disassembler on it. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:53:02] <CrazyGir> I didn't have an appropriate module before, but I do now, so that's a good reminder to move it first | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:54:01] <dpittman> CrazyGir: Looks fine to me, but check your Apache front-end isn't blocking files starting with a dot or anything. :) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:54:26] <dissipate> wollviech, even if that worked i bet the code would be unreadable | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:54:26] <Volcane> CrazyGir: so you have a module and a fileserver mount? mostly you should just use modules and forget about filesever mounts and stuff now | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:55:06] <CrazyGir> yea, I'm realizing the "everything ought to be a module" mantra | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:55:24] <dpittman> wollviech: *twitch* ;) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:55:32] <dpittman> wollviech: I so deserve that for the COBOL thing. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:56:08] <dpittman> dissipate: Anyway, if you want to achieve something with your efforts, try taking that to the Ruby community, not Puppet. We just use the language, among others. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:56:18] <wollviech> dpittman: you're welcome. ;-) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:56:44] <dissipate> dpittman, no time for that. i'm developing a web app. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:56:57] <dpittman> dissipate: ...and good luck. I think your goal is quixotic, but if it keeps you warm at night... Just make sure you don't look back in five years and realise that you didn't achieve anything real. :) | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:57:24] <CrazyGir> separate question while I hack on this some more.. for parametized & inherited classes, if you have a server class, that is inherited by a foo class and a bar class (roles, like web/database), and you have a node which serves both roles, would puppet flip out on instantiating the server class twice? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:58:21] <dissipate> dpittman, according to Paul Graham, nothing 'real' has been achieved in terms of programming languages since Lisp. | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:59:09] <bd> die someone say haskell yet? | ||
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| [2012/01/01 14:59:23] <dpittman> dissipate: ....and? | ||
| [2012/01/01 14:59:42] <Volcane> CrazyGir: param classes, multiple declarations and inheritance have a legion of edge cases where it just fails spectacularly | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:01:01] <dissipate> dpittman, he would probably say there would be great gains in porting Puppet to Lisp | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:01:05] <dpittman> bd: Haskell is just a joke that the mathematicians are playing on the rest of us. ;) | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:01:28] <dpittman> dissipate: Watch this space for the next six months, and you may be pleasantly surprised. ;) | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:01:57] <dissipate> dpittman, oh really? puppet is getting ported to Lisp? | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:02:26] <dpittman> dissipate: That would spoil the surprise. ;) (spoiler: not as such) | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:03:01] * ohadlevy knows about a project migration from c# to java | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:03:33] <ohadlevy> with an automated migration tool | ||
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| [2012/01/01 15:03:59] <dissipate> dpittman, so why is that worthwhile and not a ruby to python port? | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:04:23] <dpittman> dissipate: It totally won't be a port of Puppet to Lisp, in the sense you want. | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:04:37] @ Quit: tmclaugh: Quit: tmclaugh | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:04:47] <ken_barber> ohadlevy: hahaha. I recall some dudes doing cobol to java ports with the help of an automated tool back in 2001. charging about $1m AUD for the service though. | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:05:16] <dpittman> dissipate: ...but, ultimately? It comes down directly to which languages best solve our current and near future (eg: 2-5 year) technical problems, and the cost of moving from where we are to the new language. | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:05:59] <dpittman> dissipate: This is totally a cold blooded, language agnostic "dollars and cents" bit of math driving change, nothing to do with passion or principals like "one language should win" or anything like that. | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:06:23] <dissipate> dpittman, and why doesn't ruby fit the bill? | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:06:42] <dpittman> dissipate: For most of the code, it does. Ruby isn't going anywhere any time soon. :) | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:06:59] <dpittman> dissipate: ...by which I mean, in five years expect to see plenty of Ruby in Puppet, just like there is today. | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:06:59] * Volcane wonders why this conversation is still going on | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:07:08] <dissipate> what part of the code is getting ported? | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:07:43] * wollviech thinks it might involve fishfood | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:07:57] <dpittman> Volcane: Because it is Saturday morning, and I have nothing better to do - listening to a talk in the background, so I can't focus on anything that actually requires mental effort. ;) | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:08:07] <dpittman> dissipate: No spoilers. ;) | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:08:16] <Volcane> dpittman: picked the right conversation though since its entirely mindless :) | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:08:33] @ Quit: benjiedmund: Remote host closed the connection | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:08:34] <dissipate> dpittman, har har. nice joke. | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:08:45] <dpittman> Volcane: Sadly, the clapping just happened, so I am more or less done here. :) | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:09:04] <Volcane> dpittman: heh | ||
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| [2012/01/01 15:09:25] <dpittman> dissipate: Seriously, for Puppet Labs the decision is all about costs and benefits. Python doesn't have enough benefits anywhere that we could afford to change languages that it pays for the costs. *shrug* | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:09:39] <dpittman> dissipate: Best of luck finding a major Ruby project to convince to move though. :) | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:10:03] <dissipate> dpittman, i don't disagree with that. the cost has been sunk into Ruby. | ||
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| [2012/01/01 15:10:51] <dissipate> the reasoning for that happening sounds bizarre and non-professional to me. but hey, i guess that's how some things work out. | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:11:21] <ohadlevy> ken_barber: sadly that was rhevm, aka ovirt, and it only took about two years or so | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:11:28] <savid> Is there a puppet resource or module that will handle the addition of an ubuntu PPA? | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:11:33] <dpittman> http://www.saintsal.com/2011/12/the-antidote-to-torturing-your-data-falsifiable-hypotheses/ | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:11:49] <CrazyGir> Volcane: so creating a "server" base class that is inherited in all of the other classes (roles) might not be the best if you are planning on having nodes with multiple roles? | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:12:01] <savid> for example, in ubuntu, I would manually run: "sudo apt-add-respository ppa:example/foo" | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:12:02] <bd> savid: isn't that just a file below /etc/apt/sources.d? | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:12:05] <dpittman> dissipate: I wouldn't argue that point. Do recall, as the anecdote says, that Luke was a sysadmin, not a developer at the time. ;) | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:12:08] <Volcane> CrazyGir: class inheritance should just be avoided | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:12:16] <savid> bd, I suppose, but aren't there gpg keys involved? | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:12:26] <CrazyGir> hah | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:12:36] <CrazyGir> Volcane: why is it all over the place? | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:12:43] <CrazyGir> like in example42.com | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:12:53] <bd> savid: no idea, but if they are you could exec apt-key add ... and require the file | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:13:08] <Volcane> CrazyGir: people following bad advice - also example24 isnt (last time i checked) using param classes, inheritance + param classes is buggy | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:14:24] <CrazyGir> let me find an example, I may just be pulling on the wrong concepts | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:17:13] <CrazyGir> Volcane: so I see class inheritance in some of their modules, and I see parametized classes, but not both | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:17:25] <CrazyGir> (not both together) | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:18:06] <CrazyGir> hmmm | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:19:11] <CrazyGir> I guess I'll stick with what basic/n00bish includes I have, until more details surface / I know what I'm going to do here | ||
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| [2012/01/01 15:26:54] <Volcane> CrazyGir: http://www.pastie.org/3108576 its completely broken | ||
| [2012/01/01 15:30:05] <CrazyGir> Volcane: that's kinda sad.. | ||
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| [2012/01/01 16:16:05] <rocket> I dont know if anyone is here at the moment. but I was wondering if there is a pattern for dealing with something like this .. install software start service, need to then stop service and unmount filesystems to start heartbeat | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:16:20] <CrazyGir> can you script it? | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:17:09] <rocket> I certainly could script that, and its how I have worked in the past. I am just wondering if there is a puppet paradigm I should possibly be thinking of instead .. | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:18:07] <CrazyGir> could you clarify, is this "action" something you run as part of another process, or something you run on a schedule, or maybe even something else entirely? | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:18:19] <CrazyGir> my question: what is the larger context that you are running this action as part of | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:19:02] <rocket> it would be part of any regular puppet run. the largest context is keeping this system up to date with regularly scheduled puppet runs | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:20:16] <rocket> eg I am setting up a monitoring system that I plan to use heartbeat to provide greater ha capabilities. I am trying to automate the entire setup of the machine | ||
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| [2012/01/01 16:34:17] <dissipate> rocket, sounds like that is outside the scope of 'configuration management' | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:38:03] <blkperl> how is it outside the scope? rocket wants to "automate the entire setup of the machine" | ||
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| [2012/01/01 16:39:42] <blkperl> rocket: sounds like you will need to use run stages | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:40:03] <rocket> blkperl: great .. I havent had a ton of luck with those .. :p | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:40:34] <rocket> the depgraph chaining issues have gotten me in the past .. I believe its but #8040 | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:40:36] <gepetto> rocket: #8040 is http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/show/8040 "Puppet - Bug #8040: Classes should be able to contain other classes to provide a self contained module. It has a status of Needs Decision and is assigned to Nigel Kersten" | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:40:46] <rocket> s/but/bug/ | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:41:25] <Volcane> rocket: why do you need to start it then stop it | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:42:59] <rocket> because the app (zenoss) needs to run once to configure it .. | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:46:20] <Volcane> not really a good solid way to do something once only | ||
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| [2012/01/01 16:46:41] <Volcane> but when combined with heartbeat it'll start up when heartbeat starts | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:46:46] <Volcane> and on the first time do what needs to be done | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:47:10] <rocket> so I need to do this .. create filesystem mount, install database, install zenoss app, start the service, install zenpacks, stop the service, unmount the filesystems, stop the drbd mount, configure heartbeat, start heartbeat (which manages filesystem mounts and service starts for the database and zenoss ) | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:47:11] <Volcane> so why do you need to start it then stop it then let heartbeat start it again | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:47:29] <Volcane> ok, well puppet works by describing the state | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:47:43] <Volcane> so in puppets world any resource has one state | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:47:51] <Volcane> as service is either required to be up or down | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:47:54] <Volcane> or unmanaged | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:47:55] <rocket> I have everything working up until the point where I am tearing it apart to do the HA stuff | ||
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| [2012/01/01 16:48:20] <Volcane> so you'd probably want to do some conditional exec of a script that does all this dance of up/down/etc | ||
| [2012/01/01 16:50:07] <rocket> thats what I am leaning towards myself... just working through it with you guys to make sure I wasnt missing something | ||
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| [2012/01/01 17:25:25] <rodjek> rocket: how i handle similar things is puppet installs and configured heartbeat, puppet installs drbd, puppet creates drbd resource, let heartbeat start the drbd resource, puppet creates filesystem and mount point, puppet configures heartbeat to mount drbd dev, heartbeat mounts it, puppet installs service | ||
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| [2012/01/01 17:58:45] <rocket> rodjek: any chance you have that example in a gitrepo or similar I can look at? it makes sense etc .. thanks :) | ||
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| [2012/01/01 18:00:13] <rocket> rodjek: do you use stages? or unless type statements? | ||
| [2012/01/01 18:00:39] <vennys> ciao | ||
| [2012/01/01 18:02:15] <vennys> add list | ||
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| [2012/01/01 19:01:33] <LoRez> is there a way to get puppet to change the content of a file without it using a tmp file? | ||
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| [2012/01/01 19:09:06] <rodjek> LoRez: Augeas | ||
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| [2012/01/01 19:09:37] <rodjek> exec { "cat $template_content > /my/file": } | ||
| [2012/01/01 19:10:39] <rodjek> won't be atomic like a mv tmp_file actual_file though | ||
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| [2012/01/01 19:11:13] <LoRez> I'm guessing /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor doesn't need atomicity | ||
| [2012/01/01 19:14:10] <LoRez> should probably onlyif it though | ||
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| [2012/01/01 20:22:27] <CrazyGir> using members parameter to a group resource fails in debian squeeze? info: /Group[kvm]: Provider groupadd does not support features manages_members; not managing attribute members | ||
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| [2012/01/01 20:39:06] <ryancoleman> CrazyGir: Doesn't look like the groupadd provider supports that feature on any platform. it suggests that membership be managed through the user type instead. http://docs.puppetlabs.com/references/stable/type.html#group | ||
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| [2012/01/01 20:51:58] <CrazyGir> ryancoleman: if done on the group side, how do you say: "add this user to that group, if it is present on this system" | ||
| [2012/01/01 20:52:45] <CrazyGir> eg, I have a common user that is on all systems, and who will be a member of the www, git, smtp, kvm, etc groups on various systems | ||
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| [2012/01/01 21:11:31] <CrazyGir> separate question: how would you do things like RAID/LVM setup on a new install, through puppet.. or would you? | ||
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| [2012/01/01 21:38:13] <jpalmer> CrazyGir: IMO, LVM and such should be done at the kickstart. | ||
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| [2012/01/01 23:21:03] <ryancoleman> CrazyGir: I think that might be an advantage of handling group memberships with the user type. You'd have the groups provisioned, and the users would add themselves into the membership as they're managed on a system. | ||
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